Discussion:
Diaz non-tendered
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Dale Hicks
2010-12-03 02:20:03 UTC
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That pretty much means LF is wide open once Chipper goes down, right?

Melky was released, Infante and Blanco traded, Hinske a free agent,
McClouth is presumably in CF, and the only other player that played
there last season is some guy named Brent Clevlen (2 games in LF).
--
Cranial Crusader dgh 1138 at bell south point net
Dale Hicks
2010-12-03 03:32:58 UTC
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Post by Dale Hicks
That pretty much means LF is wide open once Chipper goes down, right?
Melky was released, Infante and Blanco traded, Hinske a free agent,
McClouth is presumably in CF, and the only other player that played
there last season is some guy named Brent Clevlen (2 games in LF).
Ah, Hinske re-signed for $1.35M (one year, with a club option on a
second).
--
Cranial Crusader dgh 1138 at bell south point net
zig zigalo
2010-12-03 17:03:30 UTC
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Post by Dale Hicks
Post by Dale Hicks
That pretty much means LF is wide open once Chipper goes down, right?
Melky was released, Infante and Blanco traded, Hinske a free agent,
McClouth is presumably in CF, and the only other player that played
there last season is some guy named Brent Clevlen (2 games in LF).
Ah, Hinske re-signed for $1.35M (one year, with a club option on a
second).
we've officially given up on schafer, right?

zig
Dale Hicks
2010-12-04 09:28:25 UTC
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In article <Dp9Ko.19677$***@news.usenetserver.com>, ziggy1967
@gmail.com says...
Post by zig zigalo
Post by Dale Hicks
Post by Dale Hicks
That pretty much means LF is wide open once Chipper goes down, right?
Melky was released, Infante and Blanco traded, Hinske a free agent,
McClouth is presumably in CF, and the only other player that played
there last season is some guy named Brent Clevlen (2 games in LF).
Ah, Hinske re-signed for $1.35M (one year, with a club option on a
second).
we've officially given up on schafer, right?
I think so. At least as far as being anything special.

Somehow, I'd missed the claim of Joe Mather from the Cardinals. He
can apparently play 1B/3B/LF/CF/RF. So if he's any good, we have an
Infante replacement.


Probable roster, stolen from TalkingChop:

C: Brian McCann
1B: Freddie Freeman
2B: Dan Uggla
SS: Alex Gonzalez
3B: Chipper Jones
RF: Jason Heyward
CF: Nate McLouth
LF: Martin Prado

SP: Tim Hudson
SP: Tommy Hanson
SP: Derek Lowe
SP: Jair Jurrjens
SP: Mike Minor

RP: Scott Linebrink
RP: Craig Kimbrel
RP: Johnny Venters
RP: Peter Moylan
RP: Eric O'Flaherty

Back Up Catcher: David Ross
UTL INF: Diory Hernandez
UTL INF: Brooks Conrad
UTL INF/OF: Joe Mather
1B/LF: Eric Hinske

Add in Beachy and unnamed 12th pitcher who never gets to pitch
because he's always in the doghouse, and things are looking pretty
decent.
--
Cranial Crusader dgh 1138 at bell south point net
Colin William
2010-12-05 13:44:33 UTC
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Post by Dale Hicks
SP: Tim Hudson
SP: Tommy Hanson
SP: Derek Lowe
SP: Jair Jurrjens
SP: Mike Minor
Add in Beachy and unnamed 12th pitcher who never gets to pitch
because he's always in the doghouse, and things are looking pretty
decent.
I think Beachy and Minor will compete for the fifth starter spot in
spring training, I don't think it'll be just given to one or the other.

Colin
Joe Schmoe
2010-12-07 02:34:30 UTC
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Post by zig zigalo
Post by Dale Hicks
Post by Dale Hicks
That pretty much means LF is wide open once Chipper goes down, right?
Melky was released, Infante and Blanco traded, Hinske a free agent,
McClouth is presumably in CF, and the only other player that played
there last season is some guy named Brent Clevlen (2 games in LF).
Ah, Hinske re-signed for $1.35M (one year, with a club option on a
second).
we've officially given up on schafer, right?
zig
Here's your Schafer article:

http://blogs.ajc.com/atlanta-braves-blog/2010/12/06/remember-jordan-schafer-cf-is-prepping-for-big-return/?cxntfid=blogs_atlanta_braves_blog
Dale Hicks
2010-12-07 02:54:48 UTC
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In article <idk6fr$tfv$***@news.eternal-september.org>, mchome5
@bellsouth.net says...
Post by Joe Schmoe
Post by zig zigalo
we've officially given up on schafer, right?
http://blogs.ajc.com/atlanta-braves-blog/2010/12/06/remember-jordan-schafer-cf-is-prepping-for-big-return/?cxntfid=blogs_atlanta_braves_blog
"I've never felt this good going into spring training." So he's in
the best shape of his life(TM).
--
Cranial Crusader dgh 1138 at bell south point net
Tomasz Radko
2010-12-07 15:22:49 UTC
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Post by Dale Hicks
Post by Joe Schmoe
Post by zig zigalo
we've officially given up on schafer, right?
http://blogs.ajc.com/atlanta-braves-blog/2010/12/06/remember-jordan-schafer-cf-is-prepping-for-big-return/?cxntfid=blogs_atlanta_braves_blog
"I've never felt this good going into spring training." So he's in
the best shape of his life(TM).
I haven't heard yet about a player, who isn't in the best shape of his
life going into spring training.
Colin William
2010-12-08 18:24:21 UTC
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Post by Tomasz Radko
Post by Dale Hicks
Post by Joe Schmoe
Post by zig zigalo
we've officially given up on schafer, right?
http://blogs.ajc.com/atlanta-braves-blog/2010/12/06/remember-jordan-schafer-cf-is-prepping-for-big-return/?cxntfid=blogs_atlanta_braves_blog
"I've never felt this good going into spring training." So he's in
the best shape of his life(TM).
I haven't heard yet about a player, who isn't in the best shape of his
life going into spring training.
Maybe Andruw Jones. Unless you consider a sphere to be a great shape.

Colin
Tomasz Radko
2010-12-08 18:58:33 UTC
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Post by Colin William
Post by Tomasz Radko
Post by Dale Hicks
Post by Joe Schmoe
Post by zig zigalo
we've officially given up on schafer, right?
http://blogs.ajc.com/atlanta-braves-blog/2010/12/06/remember-jordan-schafer-cf-is-prepping-for-big-return/?cxntfid=blogs_atlanta_braves_blog
"I've never felt this good going into spring training." So he's in
the best shape of his life(TM).
I haven't heard yet about a player, who isn't in the best shape of his
life going into spring training.
Maybe Andruw Jones. Unless you consider a sphere to be a great shape.
It is _THE_ PERFECT shape.
Colin William
2010-12-11 21:52:58 UTC
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Post by Tomasz Radko
Post by Colin William
Post by Tomasz Radko
Post by Dale Hicks
Post by Joe Schmoe
Post by zig zigalo
we've officially given up on schafer, right?
http://blogs.ajc.com/atlanta-braves-blog/2010/12/06/remember-jordan-schafer-cf-is-prepping-for-big-return/?cxntfid=blogs_atlanta_braves_blog
"I've never felt this good going into spring training." So he's in
the best shape of his life(TM).
I haven't heard yet about a player, who isn't in the best shape of his
life going into spring training.
Maybe Andruw Jones. Unless you consider a sphere to be a great shape.
It is _THE_ PERFECT shape.
Andruw Jones - the Platonic form of the baseball player.

Colin
James Sidbury
2010-12-08 19:57:32 UTC
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Post by Colin William
Post by Tomasz Radko
Post by Dale Hicks
Post by Joe Schmoe
Post by zig zigalo
we've officially given up on schafer, right?
http://blogs.ajc.com/atlanta-braves-blog/2010/12/06/remember-jordan-schafe
r-cf-is-prepping-for-big-return/?cxntfid=blogs_atlanta_braves_blog
"I've never felt this good going into spring training." So he's in
the best shape of his life(TM).
I haven't heard yet about a player, who isn't in the best shape of his
life going into spring training.
Maybe Andruw Jones. Unless you consider a sphere to be a great shape.
Colin
Is he still, uh... rotund? And I was thinking sometime during the
season when he hit his 400th HR, what does he need to do to have a
realistic chance of the HOF?

dick
-- I don't see how he makes it, but he has lots of numbers and gold
gloves and lots of time on winning teams.
p t
2010-12-08 21:51:24 UTC
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AJ is a HoF'er imo. ask JS, GM and TG if he is, he saved them how
many runs and wins.
tom dunne
2010-12-09 06:51:55 UTC
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Post by Colin William
Post by Tomasz Radko
Post by zig zigalo
we've officially given up on schafer, right?
http://blogs.ajc.com/atlanta-braves-blog/2010/12/06/remember-jordan-s...
r-cf-is-prepping-for-big-return/?cxntfid=blogs_atlanta_braves_blog
"I've never felt this good going into spring training."  So he's in
the best shape of his life(TM).
I haven't heard yet about a player, who isn't in the best shape of his
life going into spring training.
Maybe Andruw Jones. Unless you consider a sphere to be a great shape.
Colin
Is he still, uh... rotund?  And I was thinking sometime during the
season when he hit his 400th HR, what does he need to do to have a
realistic chance of the HOF?
dick
--  I don't see how he makes it, but he has lots of numbers and gold
gloves and lots of time on winning teams.
He's probably the best defensive outfielder in baseball history.
Maybe a tie with Clemente, but Andruw played the more important
position. The more that people (and by people I mean Hall voters)
begin to understand defensive metrics, the stronger his case will
get. He's also still just 33 and has his power, so if he can hang on
in the AL for another five years or so, he's got a slim chance at 500
homers. I think he's worthy without that, but a slam dunk with them,
as long as voters don't focus on his early decline.
Colin William
2010-12-11 22:01:29 UTC
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Post by tom dunne
He's probably the best defensive outfielder in baseball history.
Maybe a tie with Clemente, but Andruw played the more important
position. The more that people (and by people I mean Hall voters)
begin to understand defensive metrics, the stronger his case will
get. He's also still just 33 and has his power, so if he can hang on
in the AL for another five years or so, he's got a slim chance at 500
homers. I think he's worthy without that, but a slam dunk with them,
as long as voters don't focus on his early decline.
HoF voters (and commentators in general) seem to underrate those who
peak early and are then mediocre in their 30s - I'm thinking McGriff as
a Hall case and Griffey and Frank Thomas as other general examples.
Chipper will likely face a reputation for fragility despite having been
iron for the first half of his career.

Andruw's defensive prowess won't be forgotten, and it might even be
magnified by hindsight, but the second half of his career will be strong
in memory, and not viewed well.

Colin
Tomasz Radko
2010-12-11 23:11:25 UTC
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Post by Colin William
Post by tom dunne
He's probably the best defensive outfielder in baseball history.
Maybe a tie with Clemente, but Andruw played the more important
position. The more that people (and by people I mean Hall voters)
begin to understand defensive metrics, the stronger his case will
get. He's also still just 33 and has his power, so if he can hang on
in the AL for another five years or so, he's got a slim chance at 500
homers. I think he's worthy without that, but a slam dunk with them,
as long as voters don't focus on his early decline.
HoF voters (and commentators in general) seem to underrate those who
peak early and are then mediocre in their 30s - I'm thinking McGriff as
a Hall case and Griffey and Frank Thomas as other general examples.
Chipper will likely face a reputation for fragility despite having been
iron for the first half of his career.
Chipper is in.
Colin William
2010-12-12 15:49:11 UTC
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Post by Tomasz Radko
Post by Colin William
Post by tom dunne
He's probably the best defensive outfielder in baseball history.
Maybe a tie with Clemente, but Andruw played the more important
position. The more that people (and by people I mean Hall voters)
begin to understand defensive metrics, the stronger his case will
get. He's also still just 33 and has his power, so if he can hang on
in the AL for another five years or so, he's got a slim chance at 500
homers. I think he's worthy without that, but a slam dunk with them,
as long as voters don't focus on his early decline.
HoF voters (and commentators in general) seem to underrate those who
peak early and are then mediocre in their 30s - I'm thinking McGriff as
a Hall case and Griffey and Frank Thomas as other general examples.
Chipper will likely face a reputation for fragility despite having been
iron for the first half of his career.
Chipper is in.
I'm sure he will go in, but I still think his career is underrated.

Colin
tom dunne
2010-12-11 23:42:13 UTC
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Post by Colin William
Post by tom dunne
He's probably the best defensive outfielder in baseball history.
Maybe a tie with Clemente, but Andruw played the more important
position.  The more that people (and by people I mean Hall voters)
begin to understand defensive metrics, the stronger his case will
get.  He's also still just 33 and has his power, so if he can hang on
in the AL for another five years or so, he's got a slim chance at 500
homers.  I think he's worthy without that, but a slam dunk with them,
as long as voters don't focus on his early decline.
HoF voters (and commentators in general) seem to underrate those who
peak early and are then mediocre in their 30s - I'm thinking McGriff as
a Hall case and Griffey and Frank Thomas as other general examples.
Chipper will likely face a reputation for fragility despite having been
iron for the first half of his career.
I don't know if anyone will underrate Thomas or Griffey, they're both
likely first-ballot guys. If Thomas doesn't get in right away, it'll
be over his time as DH rather than his very early peak.

Griffey is a slam dunk first ballot, I can't imagine otherwise. With
600+ homers and 10 Gold Gloves on top of his legend in Seattle, I
think he'll get in with a Nolan Ryan-esque percentage. Looking back
at his career, the injuries are such a shame - he lost two full
seasons during his age 31-35 seasons. Give him his career home run
rate over an extra 300 games and he's got 701 homers.
Post by Colin William
Andruw's defensive prowess won't be forgotten, and it might even be
magnified by hindsight, but the second half of his career will be strong
in memory, and not viewed well.
Yeah, I can see him struggling to get in. Even with his offensive
plummet, I just think his defense isn't properly appreciated.
Griffey's 10 Gold Gloves in center are exactly as many as Andruw has,
but Junior wasn't even close to the defender that Jones was.
Colin William
2010-12-12 15:55:46 UTC
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Post by tom dunne
I don't know if anyone will underrate Thomas or Griffey, they're both
likely first-ballot guys. If Thomas doesn't get in right away, it'll
be over his time as DH rather than his very early peak.
Griffey is a slam dunk first ballot, I can't imagine otherwise.
I agree that Griffey will be a first ballot guy. I just think his career
as a whole has lost some of its luster due to the time that has passed
since his peak, and the gaudy offensive numbers put by others since his
peak. However, he's never been tainted with the PED label, as have many
whose offensive totals surpassed his, so I think that'll get more
attention when he's on the ballot.
Post by tom dunne
Yeah, I can see him struggling to get in. Even with his offensive
plummet, I just think his defense isn't properly appreciated.
Griffey's 10 Gold Gloves in center are exactly as many as Andruw has,
but Junior wasn't even close to the defender that Jones was.
Unless he can rebound to a strong finish to his career, I see AJ
dropping the ballot the first year he's eligible.

Colin
Colin William
2010-12-11 21:58:25 UTC
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Post by James Sidbury
Is he still, uh... rotund? And I was thinking sometime during the
season when he hit his 400th HR, what does he need to do to have a
realistic chance of the HOF?
dick
-- I don't see how he makes it, but he has lots of numbers and gold
gloves and lots of time on winning teams.
To the extent that he could ever have a shot at the Hall, he needs to
figure out how to hit for average, and then hang around until he's 40.
He has 407 HR at age 33, but he's hit .212 over his last four seasons,
covering over 1500 PA.

He has an outside shot at being the first 500 HR player to not make the
Hall (not including those tainted by steroids).

Colin
Colin William
2010-12-08 18:23:29 UTC
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Post by Dale Hicks
@bellsouth.net says...
Post by Joe Schmoe
Post by zig zigalo
we've officially given up on schafer, right?
http://blogs.ajc.com/atlanta-braves-blog/2010/12/06/remember-jordan-schafer-cf-is-prepping-for-big-return/?cxntfid=blogs_atlanta_braves_blog
"I've never felt this good going into spring training." So he's in
the best shape of his life(TM).
Early December is a little early for these articles DoB must be
struggling for material.

Colin
zig zigalo
2010-12-07 14:18:58 UTC
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Post by Joe Schmoe
Post by zig zigalo
Post by Dale Hicks
Post by Dale Hicks
That pretty much means LF is wide open once Chipper goes down, right?
Melky was released, Infante and Blanco traded, Hinske a free agent,
McClouth is presumably in CF, and the only other player that played
there last season is some guy named Brent Clevlen (2 games in LF).
Ah, Hinske re-signed for $1.35M (one year, with a club option on a
second).
we've officially given up on schafer, right?
zig
http://blogs.ajc.com/atlanta-braves-blog/2010/12/06/remember-jordan-schafer-cf-is-prepping-for-big-return/?cxntfid=blogs_atlanta_braves_blog
yeah... saw that this morning, :)

zig
Joe Schmoe
2010-12-04 15:00:34 UTC
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Post by Dale Hicks
That pretty much means LF is wide open once Chipper goes down, right?
Melky was released, Infante and Blanco traded, Hinske a free agent,
McClouth is presumably in CF, and the only other player that played
there last season is some guy named Brent Clevlen (2 games in LF).
Yes, there is the rub. Diaz is expendable because they are actually
counting on Chipper. I guess they really believe he is going to make it
back.
Sam Hutcheson
2010-12-12 19:19:08 UTC
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Post by Dale Hicks
That pretty much means LF is wide open once Chipper goes down, right?
Melky was released, Infante and Blanco traded, Hinske a free agent,
McClouth is presumably in CF, and the only other player that played
there last season is some guy named Brent Clevlen (2 games in LF).
Yes, there is the rub.  Diaz is expendable because they are actually
counting on Chipper.  I guess they really believe he is going to make it
back.
It bears mentioning that Matt Diaz signed a two year deal with
Pittsburgh. So if Chipper goes down the Braves can get him back for a
mid-tier prospect pretty easily. Who's this year's Charlie Morton?

s/

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